From "Poor Yorik" to The Modern Choreography School
An interview with Valentina Ustinova Resume

Valentina Ustinova: Like all the children, I liked to dance watching some TV dance shows. I began to do my first works at school, where I produced dance turns at the school parties. It was a great pleasure for me.

L. K.: Did you act as a choreographer only, or did you dance also?

V.U.: I was both a choreographer and a performer. And after lessons I went to the cinema, where old movies were shown, and watched Broadways shows with Fred Astaire, Ginger Rodgers and Jean Kelly starring. They were, in fact, my first teachers.

L. K.: And later you began to study dance professionally, didn’t you?

V. U.: That’s the point that I’ve never studied at any classical dance schools such as, for instance, The Bolshoy Theatre School. When I tried to find some school or studio in Moscow to study modern dance, I found out that practically there were no such places. There were palaces of culture, where they taught rock-n-roll or things like this, but not exactly what I liked. After a year of search, I accidentally found myself in Pantomime studio of The Moscow State University. I remember my feelings at that moment very well: I opened the door, saw people training and felt giddy. It was exactly what I needed.

First it was a studio. We showed concerts on the stages of the MSU (in its main and old buildings). Later we decided to organize our own theatre called “Poor Yorik”. We had premises on Vernadsky av. in the former cafe. There we gathered almost every evening. We made concert programs and staged serious pantomime shows based on the books by Borhes, Petrushevskaya. Besides that, we organized jam-sessions with very interesting musicians, poets, artists who came to our theatre. Artists drew, musicians played, and we extemporized. Sometimes we arranged matters in advance, sometimes we did not. Many famous people, for example, Venedict Yerofeyev, Garik Sukachov, visited our parties. And also very many foreigners. They were not interested in our theatre only as spectators: we had a modern dance teacher from England and a jazz dance teacher from Holland.

L. K.: And later they invited you to come to Holland, didn’t they?

V. U.: Yes, it was these friends through whom a half of our theatre went afterwards to the Netherlands. Many of us stayed there for a long time. Some came back in several years. Some stayed there for keeps and, unfortunately, do not deal with the theatre any more. So, this friendship has changed our lives.

L. K.: How long have you been in Holland?

V. U.: I’ve been to Holland for four times. The longest term among them is a year. The whole year 1991 I spent there, because I had a great desire to study modern dance. Besides it, I studied jazz dance, pantomime and Argentine tango.

L. K.: Were your studies in Holland helpful for you?

V. U.: Yes. In the first turn, they gave me the technique and influenced my “choreographic brains”, so that I can classify this technique for me, modernize and develop it. But, even more important, after studies in Holland I got the feeling of self-confidence. What is good in foreigners? They are self-confident. We are modest and have used to belittle our merits. And they can use even their shortcomings in their favour. That’s why when I came back from Holland and was invited to stage choreography in The Maly Theatre, I felt, in spite of some hesitation, that I can do it.

L. K.: Are there any differences in Dutch and Russian modern dance schools?

V. U.: In general, of course, yes. In Moscow we get somewhat secondary variant, because most people, who teach here, have got training there. But what I liked in Holland was the teaching technique. It was very simple, easily understood. The training was pleasant. Teachers have never humbled the students, but, quite the contrary, let them understand that at any age and with any background they are able to master everything that teachers can do. And it was great, because gave a person the strength to master any kind of dance even from zero level. It was very important. And it is really possible. In any case, hearing a good music, one will be able to begin to dance, while most people can not do it.

L. K.: Does your colleague at The Modern Choreography School Lilia Safina share your views on the teaching methods?

V. U.: It’s a good question. Undoubtedly, she has her own opinion. We both have been interested in these things, tried to find our own ways, our own teaching technique. Each of us develops her own method, and each technique has its pluses and nuances. But I think she shares my point of view that training should be easily understood and give pleasure of the process to both teachers and students.

L. K.: Besides teaching at The Modern Choreography School, you are a teacher at The Stchepkin Drama School. Is there any difference in teaching dance to students of these two schools?

V. U.: Unfortunately, yes. First, Stchepkin School is not dancing, but dramatic. And dance goes there in the second turn. Students understand it rather quickly and begin to miss dance lessons, because they do not consider dance to be as necessary for them as, say, actor skill. If I manage to win over four or five students from the whole course (which consists of about 26 people), if I manage to help them see dance as an art, I consider it a great achievement. Other students also dance, but they do it reluctantly. And here, I think, we deal with the difference between free and non-free education. Teaching in our School brings me much more satisfaction than teaching in Stchepkin Drama School, because I see that people who come to us do want to learn to dance. So, there are difficulties of this kind in Stchepkin School. But, on the other hand, when you stage choreography there, you get much pleasure since in this situation students become grateful participants of the process.

L. K.: This is why you have decided to set up your own choreography school, isn’t it?

V. U.: Yes, it must be so. Lilia and I dreamt about it for six years. Six years ago we tried to organize such a school, but it was for free and, though it may seem strange, I think, this was why the project failed. It is so because people who come to a free studio miss the lessons and in general do not take it for serious. As soon as they have to pay for the education, both sides become the winners. Teachers get money, and students regard the process much more responsibly.

So, last year or, more exactly, on February 14^th, 1998 we founded our Modern Choreography School for adults. We began from teaching of modern dance, because in Moscow there were almost no places where it could be studied. First we were going to limit ourselves to it. But later we organized also groups of Argentine tango, flamenco and tap.

I like that in our School we deal with adult people who have their personal experience. They are always very interesting. And, frankly speaking, I take much more pleasure in contacts with the students of our School than, for example, with Drama School’s students. You may say, actors are such interesting, creative people… But, unfortunately, this circle is very limited, narrow in the sense of intercourse. It may sound strange, but I’ve found that non-theatrical people can listen and hear far better.

L. K.: Now let us speak about your work at the theatres. Tell us, please, about your most successful and favorite projects.

V. U.: I think the most interesting works are those, where you do not simply stage choreography, but really live in them. I had not so many such works. In particular, it was “The feast of the winners” at The Maly Theatre, Boris Morozov’s production. With the charm of his personality, with his intellect and professionalism, this man has managed to create around himself an atmosphere, where people were drawn into the process so much that even brought him some their things, records. Everyone was a participant of the process. There were very famous actors, such as Barinov, Bochkaryov, Glushenko, Nosik. All of us were like a single family, why, in fact, this production was so good. This is why I remember it so well.

But there are productions, where you come, make the staging and go away. Neither you keep it in your soul, nor the participants. It depends on the circumstances, but in the first turn, on the producer. He has to unite everybody around the process, but it does not always happen.

L. K.: You mean, the producer may be indifferent to what he stages, don’t you?

V. U.: Yes. Maybe, not exactly indifferent, but he may not, for example, be interested in people he works with.

L. K.: And can not he choose people whom he would like to work with?

V. U.: Sometimes he has no such an opportunity.

L. K.: Don’t you think that in this case the work is not worth doing at all?

V. U.: Maybe, it is not.

You need an experience to predict what kind of production it will be before you get into process. Some of them will have a real life and, consequently, success. Working on the others, you may meet indifferent people, and in this case there is no wish to put your soul there.

L. K.: Tell us, please, how you staged the pantomime show based on Kafka’s diaries in Gogol Theatre.

V. U.: It was not pantomime, but in modern style. We prepared this show to the dance festival. There were five choreographers, and work with each other was so interesting for us!

L. K.: So, who chose Kafka?

V. U.: I did, as I was a producer of the show (and not a performer) and I liked this author very much. Music was also chosen by me. But we worked together. Everyone brought his choreography, his thoughts. It’s terrible to say, we even had a text there! I don’t know how good all the elements were compiled together, as we had no much experience then. Still, the reviews were favourable.

L. K.: How long the show was on?

V. U.: It was on only for two times.

Unfortunately, if one has no his own theatre or big money to hire the premises, the shows are not on for a long time. Generally, I was not lucky with my productions. All of them were not on long. For example, mentioned above “The feast of the winners” was an wonderful show, but The Maly Theatre’s management took a play off in two years.

L. K.: Why? Wasn’t it popular?

V. U.: It was! It was a very show. Based on the play by Soltzhenitsin. But the management had some conflict with him and the show was taken off.

And yet, I stage choreography mostly in diploma performances in Stchepkin Drama School. And they, unfortunately, are on maximum 1-2 years.

L. K.: You work at the theatres, at Stchepkin Drama School, at The Modern Choreography School. Can you say what work you consider now to be basic for you?

V. U.: Teaching in The Modern Choreography School I consider now my basic work. This is Lilia’s and my own business. We do not depend on anyone practically. Of course, it’s impossibly to be absolutely independent, but still we feel that this business is held up by us, and we put our souls in it. Also it is a good experience which allows us to develop our own teaching system.